Why are some BNP / EDL supporters so terminally stupid? by raistlin


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raistlin
A provocative subject line I know, but those of you who know me will realise that I base that on personal experience rather than hyperbole for the sake of it.

I was in Court on Friday, as a winger for a change rather than chairman. The chairman was a lot like me in that she doesn't suffer fools gladly, and will brook no attempt to disrupt her Court.

In the pre-court briefing, we were warned that one of the cases was likely to be the subject of a demonstration by a group of BNP / EDL agitators.

Following an explanation of the warning,and the intel behind it, the chairman insisted that at least six Police officers and all the dock officers and security staff were made available prior to that case being heard.

Anybody who has seen the inside of Court 8 at Wolverhampton Magistrates' Court (for whatever reason :lol:) will know the layout and be aware that it has a secure dock.

The four defendants were brought into the dock from the cells and at the same time a dozen or so members of the public entered the public area and took up the front seats. By and large they were a nondescript bunch... except for two of them who appeared to have 'EDL' tattooed on their foreheads.

The chairman said "Before this case begins, I would remind those in the public area that this is a Court of law and that interruptions are unacceptable and will not be tolerated. I will not say this again" at which point, eight Police officers quietly entered the court and took up positions along the back wall of the room.

Every one of the group in the public area were aware of their presence, and that of several security staff and dock officers who were also in the room

The prosecutor rose to speak and explained that the injured party and his family had initially insisted upon attending the hearing but had eventually been persuaded not to do so, with the exception of the boy's father, who was seated in the Press gallery.

The clerk identified the four defendants and put to each of them the joint charge of racially aggravated ABH, to which each of the defendants pleaded guilty.

We then heard how the I/P, a boy aged 13, had been en route to meet his father at their Mosque, when he was waylaid by the defendants, all aged in their late thirties, beaten up, and forced to the ground where some raw bacon was forced into his mouth which was held closed so that he had to swallow it. They then left the scene making racist chants. It is understood that there were more than the four who were in the dock but the remainder took no part in the assault.

It was owing to intervention from some public spirited passers-by that three of the four were seized and held pending the arrival of the Police.

The prosecutor completed his offence analysis by stating that was likely that the case would be committed to the Crown Court for sentence, the Magistrates' Court having insufficient sentencing powers, and asking for remand in custody for all four.

There were three defence advocates for the four defendants and one of them rose to reply and asked that his comments be accepted as adopted by the other two.

He made it clear that they expected the case to go up and asked us to consider remand on bail for the defendants, launching into a long-winded explanation as to why, the main thrust being that these were family men and shouldn't be removed from their families pending sentence.

At this point one of the women in the public area made such a vile racist comment towards the boy's father that we were all taken aback, before the chairman pointed to the individual and said "take her into custody". At which point, one of the men in the same area jumped to his feet and pointing at the chairman made the factually incorrect comment, "N***** lover". The chairman didn't turn a hair and said "That one as well" and then things quietened down as the two were taken out of the Court by Police officers.

We didn't bother to retire and agreed that the defendants would be remanded in custody. As the chairman began to make the pronouncement, one of the individuals with a tattooed forehead, stood up, made the 'gangsta' pistol gesture at the boys father and said "you... AND your f***ing family will be dead by tonight" at which point a further two of them stood up and started making disgusting comments towards the Bench. The chairman didn't even have to raise a hand before they too were taken away, this time by dock officers, down to the cells along with the four defendants who, it has to be said, looked totally bewildered.

When things had quietened down again, the chairman completed the pronouncement, asking the defence advocates to advise their clients accordingly.

As the next case was called on, one further woman ran forward, launching a prodigious gobbet of sputum towards the boy's father, unfortunately hitting one of the defence advocates who attempted to put himself between her and the target.

The remainder of those in the public area rose en mass and to the accompaniment of much quiet grumbling left the Court.

We were informed at the end of the morning that one had been charged with threats to kill, the remainder of those arrested charged with racially aggravated public order offences, assault on an officer of the Court and, of those who left the Court of their own volition, a further two were arrested and charged with racially aggravated assault on a young woman who just happened to be in their way in the foyer and had the wrong colour skin.

So, a clear and unequivocal warning from the chairman, almost as many Police officers as there were agitators, several security staff and dock officers in attendance and they still kicked off, bearing in mind that everything was witnessed by Magistrates and advocates, all of whom were likely to be considered unimpeachable witnesses.

Terminally stupid did I say? ... and then some.

Towards the end of the afternoon, we were informed that four of those arrested during the morning were found to have previous similar convictions, and of those, two had been spotted on mobile CCTV at various BNP and EDL rallies in the local area and were flagged by Police intel.
Paul

Cogito ergo sum... maybe?

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Posted 03 Feb 2013, 17:25 #1 

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Bermudan 75
In another time and another place they would have been Brown Shirts....
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Posted 03 Feb 2013, 21:11 #2 


carlpenn
Rover418275 wrote:In another time and another place they would have been Brown Shirts....



Sorry if I am being thick, but what does that mean? lol

Paul, shocking stuff there, but no more shocking than the fact these people exist in our society still.
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Posted 03 Feb 2013, 23:03 #3 

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Mick
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Brownshirts:-
The violent thugs associated with Hitlers third reich.

Posted 03 Feb 2013, 23:28 #4 

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raistlin
I suppose the fact that four supposedly mature adults could force a young Muslim lad to eat raw bacon just about says it all Carl.
Paul

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Posted 04 Feb 2013, 09:59 #5 

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MrDoodles
raistlin wrote:I suppose the fact that four supposedly mature adults could force a young Muslim lad to eat raw bacon just about says it all Carl.


Not as bad a young white girls being groomed to be gang raped though! :( :(
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Posted 04 Feb 2013, 13:21 #6 

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Mick
(Site Admin)
MrDoodles wrote:
raistlin wrote:I suppose the fact that four supposedly mature adults could force a young Muslim lad to eat raw bacon just about says it all Carl.


Not as bad a young white girls being groomed to be gang raped though! :( :(



There are scum in all societies, by it's very nature scum rises to the surface.

Posted 04 Feb 2013, 13:48 #7 

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raistlin
MrDoodles wrote:Not as bad a young white girls being groomed to be gang raped though! :( :(


I'm sorry, the relevance of your comment escapes me. Perhaps you'd care put your argument in more detail please?
Paul

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Posted 04 Feb 2013, 14:04 #8 


carlpenn
raistlin wrote:I suppose the fact that four supposedly mature adults could force a young Muslim lad to eat raw bacon just about says it all Carl.


I read about that today. Disgraceful.

I sometimes find it difficult to comprehend that I come from the same Species group as these people. :(
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Posted 04 Feb 2013, 18:56 #9 

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Duncan
MrDoodles wrote:
raistlin wrote:I suppose the fact that four supposedly mature adults could force a young Muslim lad to eat raw bacon just about says it all Carl.


Not as bad a young white girls being groomed to be gang raped though! :( :(

Mr Doodles. I'm beginning to believe you have an issue with the colour of peoples skin. This is not the first time you've made a comment making a point of pointing out something based on people being white. Does the skin colour of the criminals in your case have anything to do with it being worse?

Not that I understand what point you are trying to make anyway. Yes, grooming young girls of any colour is a vile filthy act. But why did you decide to bring it up in the context of some other vile filthy despicable criminals? And then make a comparison between them? Do you somehow think it justifies the first act? Or do you believe as your post suggests, that the skin colour makes it more or less acceptable?
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Posted 04 Feb 2013, 19:39 #10 

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MrDoodles
Duncan wrote:
MrDoodles wrote:
raistlin wrote:I suppose the fact that four supposedly mature adults could force a young Muslim lad to eat raw bacon just about says it all Carl.


Not as bad a young white girls being groomed to be gang raped though! :( :(

Mr Doodles. I'm beginning to believe you have an issue with the colour of peoples skin. This is not the first time you've made a comment making a point of pointing out something based on people being white. Does the skin colour of the criminals in your case have anything to do with it being worse?

Not that I understand what point you are trying to make anyway. Yes, grooming young girls of any colour is a vile filthy act. But why did you decide to bring it up in the context of some other vile filthy despicable criminals? And then make a comparison between them? Do you somehow think it justifies the first act? Or do you believe as your post suggests, that the skin colour makes it more or less acceptable?


The only reason the word "white" was mentioned, as the Muslim grooming gangs only pick on vulnerable white girls and not on other section of the Community, that sadly is a fact, so you can make your own decision as to who the Racists are! :(

(If you're really interested in the subject, try Googling the name "Charlene Downes" to find one of the greatest miscarriages of Justice in UK history)

But back to the OP's thread;

These people are clearly not the brightest bulbs on the tree and I don't condone violence of any kind (on either side) and without knowing the full circumstances of both groups of people, it would be crass for me to comment further.

I could go into greater detail, but I'm not sure a car Forum is the best place for an in depth political discussion.
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Posted 04 Feb 2013, 20:31 #11 


carlpenn
Mick wrote:Brownshirts:-
The violent thugs associated with Hitlers third reich.


Cheers Mick, I had no idea lol.
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Posted 04 Feb 2013, 20:36 #12 

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Duncan
I already have made my mind up. They are all racists, and vile scum for it. But what has religion now got to do with it? Is it skin colour, or faith that's the problem? Or both? What about white muslims, or non-white christians?

However I agree a car forum is not the place. So why did you start it? The OP was a non political statement of fact about something that happened. It was the OPs personal observation based on fact as he saw it. You chose to politicise it!
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Posted 04 Feb 2013, 20:42 #13 

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raistlin
MrDoodles wrote:I could go into greater detail, but I'm not sure a car Forum is the best place for an in depth political discussion.


Then kindly don't pollute one of my "tales" threads with irrelevant, inaccurate, inflammatory comments please Mark :)
Paul

Cogito ergo sum... maybe?

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Posted 04 Feb 2013, 20:42 #14 

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Mick
(Site Admin)
You are quite right Mr D. This is not the place for any political discussion.
This will be the first time since opening the forum nearly three years ago that I have referred to the only rules there are.
"Forum rules: Political argument, Racism, Religion, Sexism. There are a myriad forums on the internet where these subjects can be discussed. This board is not the place for such topics."

IMNSHO it will be best if this is left now and just accept the observations of a series of events in Pauls courtroom as is and nothing more.

Thank you all.

Posted 04 Feb 2013, 20:43 #15 

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raistlin
Please close this thread if you've a mind Mick.
Paul

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Posted 04 Feb 2013, 20:48 #16 

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Mick
(Site Admin)
As you are the opening poster I will accede to your request.

Posted 04 Feb 2013, 20:50 #17 

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