75ZT Community

Now I don't want to lob a political hand grenade but I've just found out that the National Association The Association of Head Teachers have voted to strike on November 30th.

The NAHT has NEVER voted to strike in the whole of its history. You couldn't get a less militant union.

Doesn't that say something about what the government is up to, looking beyond the spin, mis-information and rhetoric?

Yup

I'm in two minds to some extent. While I agree on the one hand that doing things like this to pensions isn't right, on the other I have just been given notice that my contributions are going from 5% to 8% to maintain my pension returns, or I can maintain the contribution and take a 25% hit on the pension when I retire.

So it's not just the public sector.

I don't have much sympathy for the public sector. We, in the private sector, have first seen our working conditions worsen, then seen our pensions devastated and had to just swallow it. Can't go on strike against a company that's gone under.

My OP wasn't about whether you agreed with the strike chaps I suspect that discussion would be a bit too much of a political bun-fight and might disturb the karma of the forum.

Bernard wrote:I don't have much sympathy for the public sector. We, in the private sector, have first seen our working conditions worsen, then seen our pensions devastated and had to just swallow it. Can't go on strike against a company that's gone under.

Which is exactly what has happened in the public sector Bernard... Equally you can't go on strike and have much impact on HM Govt...

I can't help but get drawn on this... I can only speak about the Teacher's Pension Scheme - as that is the only one I know about. However, they all might or might not work in the same way in the Public Sector. We currently contribute 6% into a pot which is used to pay pensions to those teachers in the scheme who have already retired. You do not build up an individual pot.

5 or 6 years ago a full review was carried out to ascertain whether the scheme was affordable and as a result of that review contributions went up and the way final pension were calculated was altered slightly to make sure it was affordable for the forseeable future.

It was agreed that these terms would NEVER be altered without a public review of the scheme's affordability and that pensions would NEVER be used as a political pawn.

The Tories carried out a review but refuse to publish the results. They have not produced a shred of evidence that pension contributions need to increase by 50% to 9% or indeed that the scheme is no longer affordable.

Even with the threat of the whole public sector going on strike they have still not produced any evidence that what they propose is required.

It is my understanding that public sector pensions cost the tax payer nothing. The Govt is the guarantor and administrator of the funds, no more and no less.

Also if your Private pension company comes up with terms you don't like, you can take your pension elsewhere, the public sector can't you are either in or you are out. I for one cannot afford the increase in contributions and will have to opt out, am sure many others will too. This will lead to the whole scheme collapsing.

Likewise, I only want to put a point of view, as I know feelings will be strong. On the one hand I'm in the public sector, but my future wealth will also be directly affected by the Teachers Pension fund, as my OH is a teacher.

Ten years ago, our pensions were reviwed to assure affordability. They closed the fund to new members, and converted it to Career average rather than final salary. Very similar to the changes in the TPF. As with the TPF it all goes in a pot, not a personal fund. Likewise they are telling us we need to almost double contributions now.

I'm not at all defending anything, merely saying in the private sector, we are suffering almost exactly the same, but we have no choice at all. Striking would achieve nothing unfortunately.

On a lighter side, I have a picture in my mind of all these head teachers being asked, 'Put your hand up if you want to strike'......

Bernard wrote:I don't have much sympathy for the public sector. We, in the private sector, have first seen our working conditions worsen, then seen our pensions devastated and had to just swallow it. Can't go on strike against a company that's gone under.

Firstly, I will declare that I am in the public sector - NHS.

There were no yells from the private secotr when shares were booming and so were pensions, it is only now that there is a downturn in shares that private secotr pensions have fallen that people are complaining about the public sector.

The NHS Pension scheme was changed in 2008 for new entrants and existing member could change to the new scheme if they wanted.

The new scheme has a retirement age for full pension of 65.

Now my pension payments as well as everyone else in the NHS does not go in to a pension fund BUT to the Treasury to do what they want with. So when I draw my pension there will be no pot for it to come out of - the Government has spent my contributions as well as those of my employer - so it will be paid from other funds.

Which ever Government decided not to put it in to a fund obviously had an additional revenue source BUT, having spent it they do need to pay it back.

The other thing is that most private schemes pay out depending on the market. Part of the T&Cs of public sector is the pension and as has been stated I cannot opt out of the NHS scheme.

Paul

PaulT wrote:There were no yells from the private secotr when shares were booming and so were pensions

Well, that's sort of obvious, n'est-ce pas?

PaulT wrote:
it is only now that there is a downturn in shares that private secotr pensions have fallen that people are complaining about the public sector.

No complaints from the public sector about our pensions being decimated either.

PaulT wrote:
The new scheme has a retirement age for full pension of 65.

Now my pension payments as well as everyone else in the NHS does not go in to a pension fund BUT to the Treasury to do what they want with. So when I draw my pension there will be no pot for it to come out of - the Government has spent my contributions as well as those of my employer - so it will be paid from other funds.

Which ever Government decided not to put it in to a fund obviously had an additional revenue source BUT, having spent it they do need to pay it back.

The other thing is that most private schemes pay out depending on the market. Part of the T&Cs of public sector is the pension and as has been stated I cannot opt out of the NHS scheme.

Paul

Then effectively not so much different from our schemes which were raided by the government of the day to go into .....errm...

i am also in the public sector and i guess our opinions depend on which side of the fence we fall, but one thing applies to us all and that is the government is screwing all of us be it public or private.

It seems that most of the politicians and their advisors in the rest of Europe are also incompetent given the current state of play.

The govt are considering scrapping the 50% tax rate as one theory is that it is apparently not bringing in much money to the exchequer, could that be anything to do with well paid accountants advising on tax avoidance ?

I watched a film the other night as recommended by Lewis, it was called V for Vendetta, and the end was terrific when the Houses of Parliament blew up, Brussells next please.

Wheres Wolfie Smith when you need him

Trebor wrote:Wheres Wolfie Smith when you need him

Power to the people. Up the Tooting popular front....

RIGHT up the Tooting Popular Front, if I recall

raistlin wrote:RIGHT up the Tooting Popular Front, if I recall

SPLITTERS.

People's Front of Judea!?

Judean People's Front ?

The Judean Popular People's Front?

you are very naughty boys

http://youtu.be/gb_qHP7VaZE

Bernard wrote:[

PaulT wrote:
it is only now that there is a downturn in shares that private secotr pensions have fallen that people are complaining about the public sector.

No complaints from the public sector about our pensions being decimated either.

I think part of that might be due to the fact that, in the past, those in the private sector telling those in the public sector how much better their pension would be than theirs.

The public sector were also encouraged, at one time, to shift their pensions to private ones by the Government of the day with promises of great riches that merely resulted in mis-selling claims.