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Okay, here goes - I spent the last 8 years of my working life mostly working in forensic psychiatry based in Hackney. My air ambulance work was freelance in contrast. In forensics I had to have a professional view which sometimes was very different from my own opinions. In relation to this thread, I will say that it was part of my work to see people who slipped through the safety net as well as the offenders and carry out mental state assessments for the ministry of justice and the courts as well as to give evidence and to offer up options for management. This took me to various prisons and special hospitals. I have met some dangerous people who will never ever be released, the serial killers, the sadists, the evil people who are just bad and would kill or torture or rape again if they had another chance. Having said this, they all have rights, as this how the system operates. Most of them have no insight, no remorse and some even get a thrill about taking another persons life or inflicting pain just for the pleasure of doing it or for the experience of feeling in complete control. For these people who admit to killing and to enjoy doing it, one could argue that these are the ones who need to be executed.

If I may say, that’s exactly what a meaningful debate needs, as opposed to a straight declaration of preferred choice of the alternatives. Cool, measured professional comment, from a source with direct experience.

My own belief: The likes of Cregan, Sutcliff, West et al where there cannot be any doubt, where convincing evidence abounds, and where the victim was deliberately made to suffer before the final murder, there can be no way back. The world is a better place without them, even in prison. Also mass murder by terrorist attack, be it a single operator or group. Still with the first two caveats above.

But there remains a huge grey area that provokes conflict. For instance, murder is murder. No matter the occupation of the victim, they are still murdered. No death is less of a death because of the occupation of the victim. The punishment, whatever it is, should be for the crime - not the perceived ’value’ or social importance of the victim.

Jumper wrote:If I may say, that’s exactly what a meaningful debate needs, as opposed to a straight declaration of preferred choice of the alternatives. Cool, measured professional comment, from a source with direct experience.

My own belief: The likes of Cregan, Sutcliff, West et al where there cannot be any doubt, where convincing evidence abounds, and where the victim was deliberately made to suffer before the final murder, there can be no way back. The world is a better place without them, even in prison. Also mass murder by terrorist attack, be it a single operator or group. Still with the first two caveats above.

But there remains a huge grey area that provokes conflict. For instance, murder is murder. No matter the occupation of the victim, they are still murdered. No death is less of a death because of the occupation of the victim. The punishment, whatever it is, should be for the crime - not the perceived ’value’ or social importance of the victim.

Conclude completely Ray, and lets remember the biggest killer of them all was a GP - Harold Shipman!

Chartermark wrote:Good, now opinion is allowed without sententious riposte, the thought of Dale Cregan's death inspires, not reduces me. He's a mad, grenade flinging dog, who needs his neck adjusting. Unfortunately with Ditherer Cameron et al, all that will happen is increased stealth taxes and the elderly retiring at 90 to keep this G4S protected detritus up to speed with their X boxes etc. (providing nice Uncle Jose from Brussels, lets him of course)

Interesting that you use the term "Mad" do you mean angry or do you mean Mentally ill?