The land fit for yobs by PaulT (Page 1 of 2)



PaulT
The land fit for yobs

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-e ... e-16288101

The student deserved far more than he got in my opinion - this sends the message to everyone 'do not touch irrespective of how abusive someone is being'.
Paul

That apart Mrs Lincoln, did you enjoy the play

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Posted 21 Dec 2011, 14:26 #1 

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JohnDotCom
So when a copper is getting his head kicked in you know what to do then!!
John

"My lovely car now sold onto a very happy new owner.
I still love this marque and I will still be around, preferred selling to breaking, as a great runner and performer"

Posted 21 Dec 2011, 15:20 #2 

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Mick
(Site Admin)
In an interview with the person that took the film he stated that the youth had been swearing and abusing the ticket collector for five minutes before he started recording. I hope that has some bearing on the outcome.

Posted 21 Dec 2011, 15:47 #3 

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MN190
Mick wrote:In an interview with the person that took the film he stated that the youth had been swearing and abusing the ticket collector for five minutes before he started recording. I hope that has some bearing on the outcome.


Probably not as he is a diabetic and hadn't had much to eat and had been drinking.
So he was making sure he was in control of his condition.

Posted 21 Dec 2011, 16:13 #4 

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Borg Warner
Perhaps a petition needs to be started on the Government's Website: Free The Bag Man. I'd sign it.

Posted 21 Dec 2011, 17:51 #5 


podge
Spot on John,it seems respect for anything is a lost cause these days.

Posted 21 Dec 2011, 17:52 #6 

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Zeb
I don't think the video showed the full facts, I don't think the media have presented the full facts either. I do however think that this case is not as straight-forward as it seems on the surface by a long shot....but I am not about to speculate. :) Be interesteing to see the forthcoming Court transcripts though...

Posted 21 Dec 2011, 18:09 #7 

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JohnDotCom
Zeb wrote:I don't think the video showed the full facts, I don't think the media have presented the full facts either. I do however think that this case is not as straight-forward as it seems on the surface by a long shot....but I am not about to speculate. :) Be interesteing to see the forthcoming Court transcripts though...



I was waiting for Paul to comment then realised he had gone away on Christmas jolly, then..........Thanks Carl. ;)
John

"My lovely car now sold onto a very happy new owner.
I still love this marque and I will still be around, preferred selling to breaking, as a great runner and performer"

Posted 21 Dec 2011, 18:12 #8 

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Zeb
It does also occur to me that, given the video clearly shows the chap 'laying hands' on said youth, the Police are bound to investigate, especially given that injuries occurred. I guess we will just have to wait for the Judicial System to do its thing before deciding the whole country has gone to hell in a hand-cart. Hopefully it hasn't! :)

Posted 21 Dec 2011, 18:16 #9 


carlpenn
I saw this clip on MSN the other day and joked about how the "Big Man" would wind up in Court.

How pathetic, yet again, Yobs rule and Righteousness takes a back seat.
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Posted 21 Dec 2011, 18:36 #10 

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raistlin
Chaps,

John awaits my comment but will, I fear, find my response necessarily equivocal (and unnecessarily long-winded) :(

Please let me raise one or two points for you to ponder.

The Police don't charge independently any more. Before they can do so they are obliged to present the facts to a CPS prosecutor who then allows the charge or not. Therefore, the Police wouldn't bother preparing a case unless they thought they could get it approved by the CPS.

In addition, the prosecutor has a statutory obligation to ensure that such a prosecution passes the "public interest test" ie, is it in the public interest to prosecute the case.

The CPS advisor will make a decision based upon the case presented but the decision will be influenced by the likelihood of a positive outcome, the CPS being, overall, a risk-averse organization.

So the prosecutor will have to see if a prima facie case can be presented to the Court. By that I mean, can the prosecutor present the evidence in such a way that the Court can decide that there is a case to answer, otherwise running the risk of being roundly and robustly told to go forth and multiply by an irascible old git on the Bench :lol:.

The facts are heard by people like me, and I hope those of you who know me will accept that I, amongst others, hear a great many such presentations and be assured that unless there IS a prima facie case, then the CPS, or Procurator Fiscal in Scottish jurisprudence, will be bounced out of the Court.

In the real world, the decision on a case isn't made by a faceless political bureaucrat but by people who have a solid grounding in common sense, and, if I say it myself, a great deal of experience in seeing the wood from the trees as it were ;)

My point being, that if the charge has been laid, then it will have been measured against the yardstick I've tried to explain here and that makes me think that there probably is a case to answer. I put it no more strongly. That is to say, there seems to be sufficient evidence to suggest that an assault might well have been carried out. If that is the situation, it doesn't matters not whether there was mitigation, the case MUST be tried before the Court. How, in a civilised democratic society could it be otherwise?

I don't know, any more than any other member of the public at large, what actually happened, although I've heard suggestions and speculation and seen the video which, in my view, raises more questions than it answers. Carl (Zeb), I think, made a valid point, when he suggests that the full facts are not in the public domain yet.

What I can say though, with absolute confidence, is that if a charge has been laid, then the Procurator Fiscal is satisfied that, in the real world, there is sufficient evidence of an alleged assault to put before a Court.

Please bear in mind guys, that I'm not expressing an opinion, either way, because I don't believe that I have sufficient information upon which to base an opinion, but I will, along with many others, be following the case with interest and will endeavour to obtain the transcript of any judgement or sentence which results :)

I hope I'm not "stating the bleedin' obvious", but that's my view as things stand at the moment :)
Paul

Cogito ergo sum... maybe?

Click the image to go to Nano-Meet Website
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Posted 21 Dec 2011, 19:48 #11 

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Tourerfogey
It'll go to Court - the student will be discharged and the guy who threw him off the train will be guilty of assault and have to pay the Student compensation.

The idiots are running the Asylum.

Jeremy Clarkson would possibly suggest that the student should be shot, in front of his family; but the the BBC would make him apologise.

Fortunately, I don't work for the BBC.

Posted 21 Dec 2011, 19:56 #12 


PaulT
Ah - Public Interest - but where?

If I was a member of the public on the train I believe it would be in mine and the rest of the public on the train for this yob to be thrown off so that the journey could continue.

Perhaps the other passengers should sue the yob for any expenses that they incurred or losses that they made through being delayed.

It is true that only part of the overall incident was recorded. However, I just think of the message that this sends to all the other yobs - 'you'll get done if you do anything'.
Paul

That apart Mrs Lincoln, did you enjoy the play

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Posted 22 Dec 2011, 07:52 #13 

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JohnDotCom
There should be available a number of statements from Passengers in the coach, if not a appeal should be made.
The Ticket Inspector appears out of his depth, according to post in "Rail" Magazine.
John

"My lovely car now sold onto a very happy new owner.
I still love this marque and I will still be around, preferred selling to breaking, as a great runner and performer"

Posted 22 Dec 2011, 08:52 #14 

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raistlin
Mmm... yes, I didn't think you'd like my response John :lol:
Paul

Cogito ergo sum... maybe?

Click the image to go to Nano-Meet Website
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Posted 22 Dec 2011, 09:41 #15 


PaulT
JohnDotCom wrote:There should be available a number of statements from Passengers in the coach, if not a appeal should be made.
The Ticket Inspector appears out of his depth, according to post in "Rail" Magazine.


But should he have to put up with the reported behaviour?

Who knows what someone is going to do - one of his colleagues was stabbed when he challenged two upright citizens about the fact that they did not have a ticket.

And how would you think you would do if attacked by a 20 year old.

Perhaps instead of ticket inspectors bouncers are needed.

I preume if the 'big man' gets an absolute discharge this will still count as a conviction and would therefore be picked up on CRB checks and possibly prohibit him visitng the US.

Is the message 'whatever you see happening to a fellow citizen let it happen unless you wish to appear in the dock'.

As an aside the CPS seem to be able to make a very quick decision in this case but when an MP, sorry, Minister, is alleged to have asked his wife to take a speeding ticket for him they require months and months.
Paul

That apart Mrs Lincoln, did you enjoy the play

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Posted 22 Dec 2011, 10:13 #16 

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JohnDotCom
raistlin wrote:Mmm... yes, I didn't think you'd like my response John :lol:



You go and have your well deserved Holiday mate. :lol:
John

"My lovely car now sold onto a very happy new owner.
I still love this marque and I will still be around, preferred selling to breaking, as a great runner and performer"

Posted 22 Dec 2011, 13:11 #17 

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Chartermark
Tourerfogey wrote:The idiots are running the Asylum.

Jeremy Clarkson would possibly suggest that the student should be shot, in front of his family; but the the BBC would make him apologise.

Fortunately, I don't work for the BBC.


Wonderful, my feelings too.

Well what about the other little charmer, Ryan Kitchenside, 18, who during the Summer riots pulled a 40 year old surveyor from his Aprila scooter, which he then stole, along with £1700 worth of documents in the panniers.

Yesterday he was sentenced to six years, he laughed as he was taken down, 'I'll be out in 3' was his jaunty rejoinder to the bench!

The Woh - Woh - Woh's of the 'Save a Chav' brigade will no doubt result in an amended sentence of 100 hours community knitting, when the appeal goes through.

Jeremy Clarkson's statement, which probably appeals to the majority of men unfortunately old enough for Mr Kichenside to deprive of their goods, is of course ignored.

What a crazy, asinine, world ...

Posted 22 Dec 2011, 23:57 #18 

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Zeb
He'll be out in 3....IF he can behave himself inside for that long....which I doubt. :)

Posted 23 Dec 2011, 05:55 #19 


PaulT
There will be an appeal paid for by the taxpayer and tales in court as to how being inside is having a negative effect on him and society is to blame blah, blah, blah and the sentence will be reduced to something ridiculous.

Where's Judge Jefferies with his Star Chamber when you need him?
Paul

That apart Mrs Lincoln, did you enjoy the play

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Posted 23 Dec 2011, 06:46 #20 


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