Speeder.. by geesmith (Page 1 of 3)

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I received notification that I had been speeding (35 in a 30). I've used the stretch of road approx six years and I'm quite wary on there as there is a field on one side with a hawthorn hedge and kids and dog walkers can emerge straight onto the road as there is no footpath.

I've replied confessing to be the driver. The road has no fixed camera and a parked van or car would have been noted because..
there isn't anywhere to hide
I'm always alert
my daughter who is a driver and compulsively pays attention as if she was driving was in the front passenger seat...er...paying attention.

The road is quite short so I couldn't have been followed for any distance...and would have been aware if the police car that was behind me in traffic on the previous road was still behind me as I constantly stay aware of what's in the mirror.

I intend to request sight of the 'photographic or video evidence' that they have informed me that they have. I'm intrigued to see how and where I was nabbed.
They have stated that I was on Road x in the vicinity of road y. I've driven up that road 4 times since the date of 'the offence' and it doesn't quite add up.

I'll update later for those that like this kind of thing.

Posted 03 Nov 2010, 19:21 #1 

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Any chance they could have timed you from a bridge or somewhere else that overlooks the road?

Posted 03 Nov 2010, 19:39 #2 

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Big brother is always watching us. :D

Posted 03 Nov 2010, 20:05 #3 

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..and we are always aware of it. :)

at MN190 ..Nope, a field to the left and council housing to the right,. Nothing at all overlooking and a slight curve to the road that would mean a limited area to get me in a lens. The photographic or video evidence will no doubt explain it all...and reveal my undeniable recklessness.

The side of the road that has houses has the occasional parked car. Two together looks like a crowd and a police vehicle would have the appearance of a luminous sore thumb....and two alert spotters would have seen it. Puzzling...

Posted 03 Nov 2010, 20:08 #4 

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Excuse me for being thick :roll: but are you saying that the ticket is a work of fiction?

Posted 03 Nov 2010, 21:11 #5 

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That hadn't occurred to me Tourerfogey! The photograph is becoming more intriguing by the hour...

....I should probably seek some self-doubt around about now instead of wasting their time.

Anyhow...it may show me the error of my ways. :em:

Drat! Now I'm feeling guilty about giving you cause to measure your thickness....doh. I'll probably not even ask to see it now...I'll probably say " I want to s.....er....say there was another time I was probably speeding as well officer".

Posted 03 Nov 2010, 23:41 #6 

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Glynn.. .. bear in mind that so far, this is an alleged offense, you have seen no evidence to support their claim up till now..

Sooo ask to see the photograph and any certificate they may have that the camera that took it was calibrated correctly and checked and signed by a qualified officer on the day in question.. :-|

I would ask for the photo only at first, then, when you have seen it, wait till your "time allowed to reply" is almost over, then ask for the certificate... Time is on your side.. ;)

Can you check and let us know whether the pic was taken by the police, or was it a camera operating company.. (it makes a difference) .. ;)

Posted 04 Nov 2010, 00:17 #7 

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Latest development. A letter arrived today pointing out what a lucky boy i am to be offered a safe driving course for only £70 (£85 if I wait until the 1st of December). There's an awful lot of info relating to the course and a short reference to 'option 2' in which I will either pay £60 and take three points on my clean licence or contest the evidence "you have been offered" and go to court. I don't recall being offered the evidence per se so I will no doubt have to request sight of it. Either way I won't be taking the driving course mainly due to the fact that I can't take holidays for leisure at the moment let alone taking time out for non work related lessons.
It would seem a little excessive to give safe driving courses to someone for doing 35 in a 30....It doesn't exactly have Cray twin stamped all over it. I suspect that if I spent my time driving like I needed safe driving tuition I would be seen as beyond help and simply fined. Maybe I'm suddenly becoming a grumpy old man and Sth Yorks Police are concerned that I may already have enough points for a ban. I prefer that explanation.

I have now seen a motorcycle policeman armed with a hand held speed gun standing at the point I was alleged to have committed my offence.
I'm now more intent on seeing the evidence before making my choice.

I will consult someone more knowledgeable first. At least the fine hasn't gone up since my last offence ten years ago.

Posted 17 Nov 2010, 19:15 #8 

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Hi Glynn,

I was stopped for a similar speed and offered the naughty boys class. Took the chance with both hands ( I remembered seeing the camera when i got the letter). Now they do the courses on a Saturday in some areas and it's your choice to pick a day and a venue, mine was at Ossett 8:15 in a Sat morning. ( the course is around 3 to 4 hours with free coffee and biscuits ) there is no driving involved, sit in a classroom of people all saying that they were only just speeding :D and have a discussion about the consequences, a couple ov videos ( not graphic at all, they were a couple of old TV adverts)

They aim the course at the low end offenders as they consider them to be the ones who can be taught to change as opposed to the miles over brigade who deserve the points on their licence ( well thats how they view it).

A word to the wise is that if you decide to ask to see the evidence they may withdraw the offer of the speed awareness course and stick you with the three points and the associated increase in insurance payments for the next 5 years. ( if indeed there is the evidence to support their case)

Well there it is, your choice now :)
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Posted 17 Nov 2010, 19:51 #9 

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Thanks for that Dave. I have sought advice from a friend of ours and am told that the offer can't be withdrawn by asking to see the evidence. I was also informed by the officer that got me fair and square 10 years ago that I didn't have to inform the insurance of an SP30 but being of an honest disposition I didn't try his advice out.... (I was doing 40 on a country lane and was flabbergasted to find it was a 30 limit...but I WAS doing 40) That was a speed water pistol as well......

Having been informed that there is a photo or video I'm interested to see...particularly as the only speed device I've seen on that road in 7 years is the gun that was used the other day. I don't think the guns take pics or video.

I do like coffee and biscuits. :) ...but I will be paying £70 for them... :(

Posted 17 Nov 2010, 20:29 #10 

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geesmith wrote: I have sought advice from a friend of ours and am told that the offer can't be withdrawn by asking to see the evidence.

I concur.

Cogito ergo sum... maybe?

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Posted 17 Nov 2010, 21:42 #11 

Slightly off topic but speeding related, how do the fixed cameras work on a dual carriage way? I was tootling along around the Birmingham Ring Road at 29mph (digitally set on the car speed limiter) of which the speed limit on the road was 30mph. A car came whizzing past at what ever speed, but we both went through the camera at the same time which flashed. How do they know who was speeding?

I took the car reg number just incase this time! Learnt my lesson from the kerbing! This was about 2/3 weeks ago.

Posted 17 Nov 2010, 22:58 #12 

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Hopefully he wasn't undertaking you. If it's over 2 weeks and you are the recorded keeper of the vehicle I think you can stand easy now. The other blighter will have received his Notice of Intended Prosecution within 14 days of the offence (or he's not the registered keeper and he still has it to look forward to.... or... they,ve missed their window of opportunity). If a NIP turns up at the registered keepers house after 14 days and assuming he hasn't moved house without informing the DVLA then the Notice is time barred and no longer pursuable.... (I bin reedin alot).

Wish I hadn't read the bit at the Motorlawyers site that says you don't have a right to see the evidence! That is so perverse! I can't imagine that could ever be allowed to work the other way round.

Having seen the tuning fork method of testing hand held speed detection equipment you would have to hope something wasn't reverberating at an illegal frequency as you were checked by one!

Apparently a US Lawyer got readings between -2.2 and 5.7mph from the courtroom back wall while checking a hand held speed gun during a recess. . . how fast should a wall be going anyway? :confused:

Posted 18 Nov 2010, 00:03 #13 

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Different types of cameras out there nowadays.
Simple markings on road/lane and photo of the two sections showing that you have exceeded speed limit and by how much.
Laser photo which reads number plate and calibrates speed of car.
Average speed limit which photographs you through each stage and works out your average speed over section. This one normally allows 8% over.
GPS data signal cameras.
Many new digital marks coming out that calibrate your speed take photo and transmit to ticket office. Neat.
As well as a few other types.
There has been errors of stationery vehicles doing 50mph etc but normally accurate and reliable if calibrated correctly, placed in correct zone for the right speed.
Moble camera vans always show vehicle and if two passing the aim of operator and angles etc would be checked before ticket issued if a doubt exists.

"My lovely car now sold onto a very happy new owner.
I still love this marque and I will still be around, preferred selling to breaking, as a great runner and performer"

Posted 18 Nov 2010, 00:14 #14 

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>>>you don't have a right to see the evidence! <<<

i was told this by a Dorset camera company, so I replied stating as I had seen no evidence to indicate my being guilty of any offense, I saw no reason to send them any money.. :P

They replied saying the evidence would be produced at the court hearing... :shock:

I replied saying, if that's the case, then I would ask for an adjournment in order to prepare a case for my defense based on the new evidence they introduced. And would be requesting my costs.

I heard no more about the matter... :confused:

Posted 18 Nov 2010, 01:26 #15 

geesmith wrote:Hopefully he wasn't undertaking you. If it's over 2 weeks and you are the recorded keeper of the vehicle I think you can stand easy now.

Thanks, no he overtook me, does undertaking make a difference? Loads of people will undertake at that particular spot as it goes from 40 to 30 for about 1/2 to 3/4 of a mile with two cameras in the space of 200 yards! People dont realise, get mad at the driver in front and undertake them to get past, then the camera goes off.

I also thought they had 6 months to issue a penalty notice.

Posted 18 Nov 2010, 08:31 #16 

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Bermudan 75
There is always the possibility that your number plate has been cloned........

Posted 18 Nov 2010, 14:19 #17 

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(my daughter paid a speeder that was probably earned by a cloned number - couldn't remember having been on that road anytime but paid up anyway)(she'd forgotten that my wife had the plates stolen off that car while she was in work)

They should issue the Notice of Intended Persecution(sic-joke) within 14 days of the offence. If you are the registered keeper and the records of where you can be contacted are up to date then that stands.... However, if you aren't the registered keeper then they only have to contact him within 14 days and he has to give your name and details as the person in charge of the vehicle at the time of the offence...they can probably take six months to find him then and he still has to answer to the charge.

If you are the registered keeper and have changed address without informing the authorities then they don't have to contact you within 14 days.

It's the initial notice that has to be completed in the 14 days. After you have informed them who the driver is then, yes, six months to issue a summons etc could be correct.

The main thing in your case is that they haven't contacted you in 14 days. You now know wether that means you are off the hook.

The undertaking issue could look like you were overtaking him (assuming the equipment used wasn't taking two pictures in which case it would be obvious who the offender was). If there are markings on the road then it would be fair to assume that two pictures are taken to illustrate how far the target has travelled. Lasers can take up to 43 frames...each one indicating a calculated speed..some frames possibly showing a minus figure to show that you actually went backwards a couple of times during the third of a second that the equipment had to prove it's inadequacy.....

If tyou do get a speeder you need to be happy that the road signs are correct and legal......
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Posted 18 Nov 2010, 14:55 #18 

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Once you have acknowledged receipt of the IP fingy, they then have to notify you of a date for a court appearance within six months. The actual date can be outside the six months, but you must be informed of it within six months of the "offense being commited... I think... :) :roll:

Erm over the years I have had about 15 speeding tickets! :roll: But I was a *pro driver for many years so the firm always paid the fines, and the courts always allowed me to continue driving, they hiked the fines instead!! last big one was around 1980 in Cannock and the fine was for £150! that was a lot of money at the time but I already had 4 prev convictions still currant for the same offense and I was clocked at 122 mph on the M6 in a 3.5 litre Merc coupe.. :em: :em: :roll:

*Just to clarify, I used to buy exec and sports cars for a chain of garages down south, and road testing a Jag E type Merc 350 sl etc at 70 mph just wasn't complete enuff so i used to find a quiet bit of Mway and take a chance*.. ;) :em: :roll:

The case prior to mine at Cannock was a GBH case, two blokes were up for beating a pub landlord up, they got fined £50 each.. :confused: :roll:

Posted 18 Nov 2010, 17:00 #19 

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That must have rubbed it in a bit sharp James. Sheesh...maybe he deserved it. .....

I was a professional driver for many years......two speeders in total, both the 30 mph end. Most over the limit being 40mph on a road I had no local knowledge of and would have thought it would be at least 40.

When the guy got done for driving too slowly one of the lads at work said he'd been down a narrow twisty lane that evening and nearly killed himself sticking to the 60MPH national limit so he didn't fall foul of the law ...(he was joking of course) interesting to hear that landlords were only fifty quid a beat at one time

Posted 20 Nov 2010, 19:12 #20