75ZT Community

The 14 days are up....South Yorks Police told me to contact safetycamera.org for the evidence by email which I did....no pictorial or video evidence has yet been offered. I checked in with South Yorks Police today to point out that I hadn't received any evidence and my 14 days is up. The lady that answered kindly suggested that I contact the Ticket Office tomorrow and informed me that asking for the evidence counts as a response so tomorrow being day 15 shouldn't be held against me.

The options were to accept the offer of speed awareness or accept the fine or decide to go to court to contest the evidence offered. Obviously without having seen the evidence I find it impossible to respond in an appropriate manner. No evidence has been offered other than being told there is some which could be a photograph or video. I have read so many reports from those that use the hand held speedguns saying they are very difficult to be accurate with ....and having seen the size of a £70 note....and insurance quotes that have the excuse of an SP30 added to them.

Ellow Glynn..

You have replied, now it's up to them. But don't push it, if they run out of time that is their fault..

I believe that if it goes to court, the police get any fine monies paid.. So the camera Co do NOT want you to go to court. Should it become obvious that you intend to take the matter to court no matter what, you may well find that the camera Co begin to lose interest. ----
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James.uk wrote:I believe that if it goes to court, the police get any fine monies paid

Common misconception James Any fines payments from a Court go to HMCS, for onward transmission into the yawning black hole which is our economy.

My biggest concern is that any fine monies come out of my pocket and I don't fancy paying anything if there is a chance I am not guilty. When police officers themselves may have concerns over the accuracy of the equipment (hand held speed gun) it would be nice to see the evidence before making a decision. It doesn't seem to be a good system that tells me I should decide if I agree with the evidence without seeing it.

The police officer I spoke to on the phone today tells me the photograph shows a rover 75 and the driver appears to be taller than the passenger. He told me that my inability to decide in good time may result in me being taken to court. I'm not trying to weedle out of anything. If the evidence "that has been offered" is presented to me then I can either hold up my hand or choose to contest.

Surely it would be easier to present the evidence to the person that confesses to being the driver along with the options. That would be a necessity in a business transaction. (I would have chosen my course of action by now).

They have to produce any evidance they may have, dunno why they don't just send you a copy..
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That may be a subject for debate Jimbob. I feel like I may be declared a terrorist organisation for not just mindlessly saying it's a fair cop. i'm not allowed to do "mindless" in any other area of my life....it's now a habit to question things.

Well having met you Glynn, I can understand anyone viewing you with a certain amount of suspicion, and with your musical background one does tend to think of hippies, drugs, free love (well cheapish anyway) flower power, men in frocks dancin round wavin sticks clapping their hands and singing about diamond studded stars n stuff does rather make one wonder if anyone is actually in residence innit -------

Basically, you are awfull -- But I do like you...
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Please be aware that the above reference to my musical past and the fact that he do like me are the only factual statements that Jimbob has made in his last post. I am currently more of a granddad than any of those things. I can't even remember the sixties...

...but you have to like him.

I contacted the 'Ticket Office' to explain my concern that my 14 days had expired and I still hadn't seen the evidence 'I have been offered'.
The officer told me that the vehicle is obviously a Rover 75 and the driver appears to be taller than the passenger ...... so.....


I then received a mailer daemon telling me that my mail hadn't got through to safetycamera.org. This turned out to be a false message due to a glitch at our end...but I had already contacted the safetycamera.org to clarify as I have now sent two emails. There was a statement on their site that emails sometimes go to the spam folder so 'you should contact us by phone after 5 days to check'.
I phoned them this morning and was told they hadn't received an email from me. I told them that both emails were safely logged in my sent box here and online and they said they would call me back. They have now found my mail and will contact me at some point, not sure when or what the contact will entail. They did excuse themselves as they have not been able to get in to the office due to the weather conditions (the weather situation only arose during this week didn't it? Both emails went before the bad weather came).

Meanwhile I cannot access my details on the site that gives the speed awareness course as my case number is no longer available.

There does seem to be a degree of guilty until proved innocent but this probably arises due to a very convoluted methodology.

I'm sure this would be sorted one way or the other if the follow up to the return of the NIP had a copy of the evidence.....or the options didn't require me to have an option to contest 'the evidence offered'. (i.e. this hand held camera cannot fail in this particular instance due to it's accuracy being claimed to be much better than any third party has been able to replicate)

geesmith wrote:Meanwhile I cannot access my details on the site that gives the speed awareness course as my case number is no longer available.

I hope that doesn't mean it is no longer available as an option

Well Dave, for a change I blame the safetycamera.org team instead of the guvment if that's the case.

I've offered them a "good practices awareness" course.... With emails you just click REPLY then ATTACH and attach the file you want to send. I have to do it all day long regardless of how busy I am. I've also managed to get into work, 30 mile round trip in rural South Yorks, every day....even though the roads aren't arterial or city center.... all the time being mindful of the safety of others that may accidentally find themselves in my path, cautious of unknown road surface conditions and areas of possible conflict with other road users ..and respectful of those that choose to drive at a speed that may be slower than that which ensures maintaining forward momentum .... and courteous as always...
...I was taken to work on Wednesday as I couldn't get the car off the street due to persons having been too heavy with the right foot who then abandoned thier vehicle in places that blocked the highway. The guy that took me drove too fast for the conditions even though he had no local knowledge, too close to every vehicle that got in front of us (even for dry conditions) and without regard for lane markings and failed to stop at one red light so he didn't get stuck.....
...and I'm the one that needs a driving course hhmmmm

Once the legal time is up to respond and action the course then becomes unavailable as it is deemed you are going to court to fight the case if fine not paid and received with driving licence.
I'm sure Paul will confirm or correct later as required.

I understand that aspect of the time limit John. That's why I've repeatedly contacted them to chase the evidence.
The options were

pay 70 quid for the awareness course.

pay the fine and take the points

contest in court as you don't agree with the evidence you have been offered.

As I'm aware that the hand held speed guns have such a bad press I think it would be a good idea to see the evidence. I'm not a road hooligan. I accept that speed limits are set for safety reasons and I respond accordingly. I've used that road most days of the week for approx 7 years and have witnessed actions on that road that have alerted me to the risks that are attendant and I drive accordingly. I've never been offered the evidence and am finding it very slow going getting the evidence.

I'll admit that I briefly gave up and checked the awareness site as I have enough on my plate and never intended to be a campaigner of any kind. The response to all my enquiries seem to start with "you haven't contacted us for the evidence". That was going to be the end of it today until I made it clear that I have the sent emails securely stored as proof.

I'm not being obstructive or using a delaying tactic. I'd prefer it all to be in the past one way or another but I'm not able to consider all of the options offered within the 14 days. If that works against me then the third option shouldn't be allowed or offered. How can I know if I want to contest in court and why is it an option? I believe the 14 days should be extended until such time as I can respond taking ALL three options into account....just like the rest of life. If I had the evidence I may well have replied immediately accepting that it's a fair cop.

...even with the iffy results one reads regarding the LTI2020 (which is probably the one used) such as...
"The LTI 2020 has been banned from use in some countries throughout Europe and various states in the USA due to accuracy issues,"

as can be found all over the web. What if I was fined or charged for doing 28 in a 30 limit?

Your emails can be used as evidence in court to determine when you requested the evidence. These are legal documents, being time stamped at the server, IMHO if they have not responded to your requests then they are in breach of the law / rules regarding this action. Providing you corresponded with them within the said time frame, I feel any magistrate would take this into account.

My understanding as well Mick. I'm doing all I can to hurry this along.
While none of the people I've spoken to have been impolite nor appeared to have an issue with my request, there does seem to be a vagueness to their responses. This may be a layer that I've subconsciously filtered in when I don't get a definite course of action.

I'd like to think that any breach that has occurred has been as a result of an oversight rather than anything more sinister. Surely it's in everyone's interest to put this to bed asap. It's still obvious that there was an implied offer of the evidence for me to view which I accepted within the 14 days therefore I believe that all three offers, including the speed awareness course at the pre December 1st price of £70 should still stand.
The statement on the awareness site was to the effect that the course is offered as the extent of the offence does not warrant points on the licence, therefore that should still be an option even though I have requested sight of the evidence...even if, in waiting for the offered evidence to be supplied someone chooses to presume that I should now be taken to court. My case being that due to an inability to respond, taking all three options into consideration, the gravity of the original alleged offence hasn't changed and still does not warrant points on my licence (unless I choose that option after seeing the evidence - I think it's obvious that my first choice would be to not have points on my clean licence). Nowhere does it state that accepting the offer of sight of the evidence removes the right to choose any of the options given. It did point out that not accepting the course before the tariff went up on the 1st of December would result in my paying the increased tariff of £85 instead of £70. I doubt this was intended to be a tactic but is an unfortunate coincidence and one that I would have to take into account, possibly brought to my attention as a courtesy.

Seems you just have to be patient while the Camera Co sort themselves out Glynn..

When all's said and done you are entitled to see any evidence they may have. I'm sorry they are making such hard work of it for you..
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Just as I can look at the birdies searching for food in my frozen garden and feel a bit of love for them, so can I look at my empty evidence slot in my emails and ...(come on glynn, you're going a bit too far now...)

Apologies to my fellow safe drivers. I have booked the speed awareness course. At least I stuck out for the evidence photo which does show my car and does indicate that I was doing 35mph in a 30 zone. There are several issues with the single photograph that would be unsafe to prosecute in Massachusetts but ~I'm in South Yorks.

Don't believe the old idea that there is a leeway of 10% plus 2mph. The only photo I have shows 35mph. I presume that's the worst. In future if I see a handheld I may have to pull over and wait until he's gone. That should be safe.

Sorry, copped out. Too many stressfull things going on at the moment. Last nights major migraine was the turning point. I'll now concentrate on the other stressfull commitments. Age is starting to tell.....

As many people have said. If this was a fixed camera I would have accepted guilty straight away.

Glad you decided on a course of action. Now you can get on with other things. Who knows? the course might be fun. . Lifes too short to waste any of it being unhappy Glynn.

Now get yer nurdlin pole out and go let the world know you are alive and well again.
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Thanks for the backslap Jimbob. Luvly sentiments from a luvly bloke.



Now where was I ya big tuppence?

Oh yes....now have a wheel wobble that is bad at low speed and becomes less obvious as speed increases....not that I've tried going fast of course. I'll start a thread....