What do you think? by raistlin

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raistlin
Paul

Cogito ergo sum... maybe?

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Posted 26 Oct 2015, 19:13 #1 

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Duncan
I wouldn't buy anything from that ebay seller. I wasn't happy with the description they gave compared to what I received. It wasn't a lot of money so wasn't worth the argument. So ask some careful questions about exactly what the easily available hardware is and what is required to make it work.
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Posted 26 Oct 2015, 19:24 #2 

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Borg Warner
Been some considerable fall out over on the O/C on this subject. It looks like Brian has retired from helping people out because a new member thought it could all be done on the cheap, got quite nasty unfortunately.

So what does a programme for a car ECU (Engine Control Unit) look like? I take it it's a little more complicated than the C64/VIC 20 "RETURN WITHOUT GOSUB" I remember trying vainly to type into mine from Commodore Monthly or whatever it was back in the '80s?

Gary M.

Posted 26 Oct 2015, 19:36 #3 

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takestock
Well known on the OC, allegedly the software is pirated .......
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Dave....

Posted 26 Oct 2015, 19:38 #4 


Mad-Monkey
I'm guessing he is referring to something like the KWP2000. However depending on his files you could be breeding gremlins when they are loaded to the car. He has a T4 (Testbook version 4.Computer Diagnostic System) and does diagnostics etc... so you would presume all is well. Is it a club member?

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Posted 26 Oct 2015, 19:46 #5 

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raistlin
takestock wrote:Well known on the OC, allegedly the software is pirated .......


Who is it Dave?
Paul

Cogito ergo sum... maybe?

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Posted 26 Oct 2015, 19:46 #6 

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raistlin
Paul

Cogito ergo sum... maybe?

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Posted 26 Oct 2015, 19:48 #7 

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Borg Warner
raistlin wrote:
takestock wrote:Well known on the OC, allegedly the software is pirated .......


Who is it Dave?


There's a similar current thread on the O/C Paul, apparently it's an ex member.

Gary M

Posted 26 Oct 2015, 19:49 #8 


Mad-Monkey
The remap files are quite easy to pull from the cars with them installed unfortunately.

Judging from his other items he is certainly trying to tread on some toes.

Posted 26 Oct 2015, 19:58 #9 

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raistlin
I'm now seeing that this isn't something we could do at the nano-meets.
Paul

Cogito ergo sum... maybe?

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Posted 26 Oct 2015, 20:05 #10 

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Duncan
Well, I seem to remember 'someone' re-loading the engine software at a Nano earlier this year.

Regarding the software: its probably compiled from a high level language like C. So actually not much different from the BASIC language you are quoting, though RETURN WITHOUT GOSUB is actually an error message from the interpreter when you have a RETURN statement but there's no associated GOSUB. I know, I'm sad. BASIC would never be allowed because of its ability to simply jump from one piece of code to another using GOTO.

In the case of these power upgrades, the software itself isn't changed, but the look up tables (or maps) are replaced with different values and the whole lot put back in. The question is identifying what bits of the software are these maps, and what the functional software and replacing the right ones. Getting it wrong could break the software itself. I guess it can't be that hard to find these tables if you know what you are doing, because there are so many tuners around.

A lot of newer engine software is prewritten by the likes of Bosch, and contains all possible variations. The car manufacturer then 'calibrates' it by switching on and off options, and loading these look up tables and the diagnostic values. It's quite complex since all of the computation is angle based rather than time based and I can't pretend to understand it.
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Posted 26 Oct 2015, 20:20 #11 


PaulT
Duncan wrote:A lot of newer engine software is prewritten by the likes of Bosch, and contains all possible variations. The car manufacturer then 'calibrates' it by switching on and off options, and loading these look up tables and the diagnostic values. It's quite complex since all of the computation is angle based rather than time based and I can't pretend to understand it.


Duncan, I am sure that VW can explain it to you :)
Paul

A turkey is for Xmas not for life

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Posted 26 Oct 2015, 20:24 #12 


Mad-Monkey
Curiosity got the better of me so I had a wee look over the other side. Seems these files are just downloads from other cars. So my guess on the KWP 2000 is probably correct. When they are uploaded to your car it will cause ZCS code errors and a VIN (Vehicle Identification Number) mismatch. Your car will not work as expected unfortunately.

Posted 26 Oct 2015, 20:26 #13 

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Borg Warner
Thank you again Duncan.

So then, is the information required for the extra horsepower already in the car's ECU so it's "just" a case of telling it via the look up tables what to do?

Gary M.

Posted 27 Oct 2015, 08:31 #14 

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Duncan
I guess it depends. The look up tables basically say how much fuel to put in and when, compared to how fast the engine is going, what the pedal is doing and so on. So in a way, yes. The look up table gets altered to put in more fuel, or change the timing, or whatever. The art is in changing it to something that does actually give more power without doing other things.
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Posted 27 Oct 2015, 18:13 #15 

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Shawn
The maps are just small 512kb hexadecimal files.Its not rocket science. I've flashed a couple and have now even written one. Didn't take me "thousands of man hours",took me 8hrs to master some professional software.I still maintain that charging £120 to press a button is far too expensive. ;)
EDIT: just remembered that before that thread was locked Marina threw out that I was Dave as well. A fact he knew was false because Trikey has met us both.

Posted 18 Jan 2016, 10:47 #16 

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Arctic
(Trader)
we need to be careful here as this thread can and will distend into arguments like they did over the OC, the 160 remap was allegedly ripped from a car that had it had been added to. As far as I am aware though because of the coding if you try and add it to another car it will not work, it will in fact revert back to the original map ie 116 or 131 but will make the car run poorly.

The 160 MAP was a collaboration of many 100's if not 1000's of man hours between the gents here named, if I am right Phil T4, Marina Brian, & Big Russ. so the 160 MAP was a safe upgrade.

At the end of the day you get what you pay for in life in my opinion not that it cost what as been sated here, and for me and my son it was not about the cost but that the MAP was added by an experienced and knowledgeable T4 person, and we had confidence in the fact if something went wrong he would be able to fix it there and then, ie if the car got bricked.

The seller is also known as other sellers on the bay again allegedly reported from the OC.

Shawn you know how well this as been documented on the OC, as it brought forward you a ban if I am not correct please accept my apology.

Posted 18 Jan 2016, 16:42 #17 

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Shawn
All that stuff on the bay had nothing to do with me!
Flashing an ECU yourself has been safe for me.
It's easy and inexpensive to the point where I can flash a 75/ZT for free now.

Posted 18 Jan 2016, 20:29 #18 


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