VIS Motor PCB Design by Mad-Monkey (Page 1 of 2)



Mad-Monkey
Well I've been a bit on the bored side with being at a stand still on the ECU (Engine Control Unit)'s until the funds permit. So thought I'd turn my attention to something else, and after seeing the VIS (Variable Intake System) motors being repaired at the Nano-Meet I thought why not!

Thanks to takestock who sent me a box of bits to play with, and Mr Edd who has kindly donated two VIS motors as well, I was set! Package arrived Thursday from Mr takestock and I thought I'd get straight to work... Sunday came I started :D

Stripped down the board so I was left with this...

Image

Image


This one was equipped with the large relay, so although the tracks were fine, the components had shorted. Russ found the technical details of the components on the OC and posted them up showing the Motor stalled at around 3.1A, with the components only being rated to 2A. So when the motors get gunked up and draw over the 2A either the components pop, or the PCB (Printed Circuit Board) track does :(

I fired up AutoCad and set about drawing the design in. 1/2hr later I had done nothing and realised I have no AutoCad knowledge, so I opened trusty Illustrator and began. Shortly after I had this...

Image


I hoped the import process would be easy; import the design into the PCB software of choice and away I go. However the import process was far from smooth, some trial and error on the scaling finally saw me right. Placed a few components and this is what I have...

Image


No tracks yet, thats shouldn't take too long on a PCB this size. My plans are to look at Russ's oil sealed VIS Motors and move the tracks he insulated with tape to the reverse. Makes for a cleaner mod and my OCD quite likes that. Also look at the possibility of adding a fuse to the circuit that would blow before the components and tracks. Changing a fuse is far easier for the average user than de-soldering and re-soldering. I just don't fancy being responsible for frying someones ECU if I get it wrong :)

Also before I rocket ahead too far and spend money I'm on the hunt for these...

Image


At the moment everything on the board is easy and cheap to replace, but the pins are so far non-existant. I'd quite like to offer a full package of components, or part numbers to people so they can just knock one up if you like, rather than salvage pieces.

I've yet to add the location/mounting holes on the PCB but will do soon.

The all important cost? I've costed up about £3-£3.50 inc 1st class recorded post depending how many boards are made at once. This is obviously only one board, you'd need two to do the set. This board was easier to do than the other so I thought I'd have a practice first :D £3.50 is probably a worse case scenario as well, so it won't be more.

Whilst I know people are repairing PCBs by running little wires, my OCD hates it! It's too messy for my brain to take. So a complete board with new bits would in my opinion be a good idea, but...

Would there be any interest if I carried on?

Posted 24 Oct 2011, 14:19 #1 


PaulT
Having an oil burner VIS motors do not worry me. However, this seems an excellent idea, especially the fuse meaning that the design and security is improved. Would have thought those with Viss would jump at this.

Paul
Paul

That apart Mrs Lincoln, did you enjoy the play

Image

Posted 24 Oct 2011, 14:32 #2 

User avatar
Mick
(Site Admin)
I will certainly be interested in an upgraded and superior product, hopefully these will be in place next time I need a replacement VIS actuator. Thanks Dave

Posted 24 Oct 2011, 16:37 #3 

User avatar
kandyman
Nice work :)

I would be interested in a set, and I'm sure I can find some funds to put up to help you fund the startup cost.
Image

Posted 24 Oct 2011, 17:28 #4 


Mad-Monkey
Thanks guys, I'll plod along. The pins are needed to make it worthwhile to be honest. One of the benefits was to help eliminate the hassle of de-soldering and soldering components. If you have to strip down a set before you can use these, you may as well go for a repair, unless you have OCD as bad as mine :D

Thanks for the offer Andy! :) At the moment it hasn't cost anything to do what I've done so far, apart from time. Takestock kindly donated a box of bits to the cause and Mr Edd has a set of motors he said he can send me aswell. It will only become costly at manufacture, although they are £3 each you have to buy 100+. The funny thing with PCB manufacture is that it sometimes costs the same to make say 5 boards, as it does to make 50!

Posted 24 Oct 2011, 18:08 #5 


Mad-Monkey
Drawn the pins into the computer...

Image


Going to send them to a metal pressing company to see how much they would cost as a last resort :)

edit... opps drawn them a bit small for the internet!

Posted 24 Oct 2011, 20:26 #6 

User avatar
Trebor
having just acquired a 190 I would be interested David, and well done on some more pioneering work, but are you sure your not making a gun ?
Robs Pictures at :

Robs Car Gallery

click below to access nano website
Image

Planning is an unnatural process, much better to just get on with things, that way failure comes as a complete surprise instead of being preceeded by a period of worry and doubt

Posted 24 Oct 2011, 22:48 #7 


Mad-Monkey
Trebor wrote:having just acquired a 190 I would be interested David, and well done on some more pioneering work, but are you sure your not making a gun ?


:D Threaten those butterfly values with their lives!

Posted 25 Oct 2011, 06:31 #8 


Mad-Monkey
Well I emailed a metals company and they've quoted erm... £5k for the pins to be pressed :shock: Erm.. lol ?!

Anyways, I think that rules out the idea to have them made as although only one company I can't see a dramatic price difference between companies that would make it feasible. It would basically make it around £4 per pin!

Posted 25 Oct 2011, 15:46 #9 

User avatar
takestock
Online
David, I could supply reclaimed pins, say 40 long pins and 20 short as a start up option, trouble is you will always be chasing the returns, believe me :( you will, looking further ahead the next hurdle is the plastic housings, people will invariably break the lugs on the casings. If you do have to purchase 100+ plus boards let me know I am more than happy to contribute :)
Photobucket = Tossers

Dave....

Posted 25 Oct 2011, 17:19 #10 


Mad-Monkey
Cheers Dave very kind of you! The boards shouldn't (touchwood) be an issue, I can pay on account then pay later :D If I get stuck then your the second member to offer financial assistance so in all we're covered on the boards :) Really generous offers guys!

If anything the boards have been the easiest bit! The pins are a bit of a stumbling block as I don't want to be asking for pieces in return, however if we get into the realms of case manufacture then something different could be knocked up connection wise.

Posted 25 Oct 2011, 17:29 #11 

User avatar
TyphoonTT
You've got my support too David! Quite happy to contribute some funds when needed.

Great work!

Another option for the pins may be laser profiling.

Posted 25 Oct 2011, 21:59 #12 


Mad-Monkey
Thanks Ben, that's very kind!

Spoke to someone about laser cutting them, and they wouldn't do them. The cost to run the machine would out weigh the return ?!?! Also is seems copper can not be laser cut. I'm a bit unsure what the pins are made of, its like a pale brass. I assume some sort of nickle alloy. I'll have to email a few companies in China and see what they come up with.

Posted 25 Oct 2011, 22:09 #13 

User avatar
Mick
(Site Admin)
There's Community funds available as well if you need assistance.

Posted 25 Oct 2011, 22:53 #14 


PaulT
Monk wrote:Well I emailed a metals company and they've quoted erm... £5k for the pins to be pressed :shock: Erm.. lol ?!

Anyways, I think that rules out the idea to have them made as although only one company I can't see a dramatic price difference between companies that would make it feasible. It would basically make it around £4 per pin!


Cost will depend on production method. The big expense for the company will be for the press tools hence the unit cost is high because you are looking for low volume. When I was enquiring about 'proper' double din fascias the tool cost was very high (they would sub it to China) and then the cost to produce each one was very low.

Would think you need a small one man business that will hand produce each one and thereby the unit cost will be lower. In addition, their turnover might be so low that they are not VAT registered thereby reducing the effective cost even more.

Paul
Paul

That apart Mrs Lincoln, did you enjoy the play

Image

Posted 26 Oct 2011, 06:46 #15 


Mad-Monkey
Cheers Mick, very kind! :)

I've found a company that does low volume quantities and posted a sample to them today. Hopefully something reasonable will come of it :) Fingers crossed!

Posted 26 Oct 2011, 17:26 #16 


BADLAD
Please don't think I'm sticking my nose in, but, at the nano in October, I soldered a few of these simply because I had a gas soldering iron handy.
I have a diesel myself, so didn't pay much attention, but I noticed a pattern of damage.

There was repeated damage to the solder pads on the micro switches and dry joints on the micro switch solder pads.
I think this was probably caused by the constant mechanical movement of the cam that operates the switch.
A simple solution would be to apply some hot glue / araldite the back edge of the switch to the board to prevent movement and hence solder damage. This was in the units that I looked at.

Other than that, the most damage I saw was to the pcb tracks either feeding the motor, or coming from the relay which switches the feed to the motor. They could do with being beefed up a bit, but, if the motor current is kept within spec, they shouldn't be a problem.

If it was a problem with my car, I think that I would secure the switches with some kind of adhesive after repairing the solder joints and then apply some light silicon grease, or silicon spray grease to the motor bearing and the operating cam to make everything slick. I would think that that would minimise problems for a year or two at least. Interesting to see what happens though...
You can also get electrical contact grease which might help minimise resistance through the pins in the connector. It's applied with a small brush at the factory, but gets lost with heat and plugging/unplugging. Try RS components for the contact grease and the electrical pins you are looking for. They have a website which is very well laid out.

Anyway, just a couple of ideas to throw into the mix!

Good luck with solving the underlying problems, I think it's a deceptively tricky task which will have a very rewarding finish!

Ian

Posted 26 Oct 2011, 18:30 #17 


Mad-Monkey
Cheers Ian. There is an alternative switch available, its a drop in replacement and uses screws to secure. However at £5 a pop compared to £1 and some glue it would be the buyers choice. However the tracks will accomodate for any screws so there are no shorts.

The tracks will certainly be beefed up, but this causes one of the components to blow, the switches and relay are rated to 2A and the motor can draw upto 3 so they usually go when the tracks are more substantial. As they are on the later PCB boards anyway. A fuse on the board would help save the components and is easier and cheaper to replace.

So far for pins I have tried;

RS
Maplins
Mouser
Digikey
Farnell
RapidOnline
Tyco Electronics/AMP
Toby Electronics
Probably a few more I can't remember

Now on the custom made possibility.

Please keep throwing the ideas out as once tooling is done it is costly to redo! As many points as possible need to be raised so they can be considered :)

Posted 26 Oct 2011, 18:50 #18 

User avatar
takestock
Online
The main problem with the VIS motor is oil ingress. this causes the motor to draw more current and in turn loads up the pcb. Second most common problem is dry joints, the switches are already held in place by the top of the VIS motor, i have found that by using solder with 40% lead it gives added strength to the joints.
My balance motor that uses a sealed bearing to keep the oil out has worked faultlessly for over 2 yr with no extra adaptations
Photobucket = Tossers

Dave....

Posted 26 Oct 2011, 18:58 #19 


Mad-Monkey
I think I may have sourced some smaller pins! Just waiting for a datasheet to be sent through to see what the supplier actually has. :) No word on the larger pins though :(

Posted 28 Oct 2011, 15:19 #20 


Top