75ZT Community

I need some friendly advice about some issues retrofiiting TC to my diesel.

At the last nano meet I had prefitted a used ABS (Antilock Braking System) pump with TC ( with the correct code MN )having first checked that the wiring was present in the car, so just needed a code chage via T4 (Testbook version 4.Computer Diagnostic System) and Bobs your Auntie, but it was not that simple or course !

The situation was not helped by me when fitting the wiring plug to the new pump as I bent 2 of the pins which gave in and snapped off, however a quick look at the Rave wiring diagram revealed that the broken pins were going into an unpopulated section of the plug so happy days and i thought i would get away with it

The car was T4d and codes changed by David after which I had the ABS light on constantly plus although the words " Traction Control " came on the IPK (Instrument pack (IPK from the German)) on start up it was quickly followed by the TC icon indicating that TC was switched off and depressing the TC switch on the dash had no affect at all. After a few days the ABS light went off after start up but TC still stayed switched off

So after the meet I concluded that either the used pump i fitted may have been faulty or i had damaged it when bending and breaking off the pins, so i sourced a brand new pump which i fitted today, but its made no difference as the TC icon is still permanently on the IPK and the dash TC switch is still having no effect.( and the plug is definitely fitted correctly this time ! )

When i fitted the used pump i bled all the brakes in the correct sequence although not on a T4, so had to do the same today having fitted a new and completely dry pump.

Started the bleed sequence usung Gunsons easibleed, starting with passenger rear and bled no problem, next drivers rear but nothing coming out at all not even having taken the bleed nipple completely off ! Both front brakes bled ok and i retried the drivers rear several times, trying with ignition on, engine running and pedal pumping but still nothing coming out at all, so abandoned for now.

There is a very interesting thread on the OC re bleeding via T4 , link below, and my theory having read it is i need a T4 bleed session to activate the ABS valves which may then allow proper bleeding, the thread below suggests that there are 2 T4 bleed sequences and one relates to a new pump having been fitted which is my situation.

Even if i bleed via T4 i still have no TC with a new pump and correct re coding so stumped with that one unless the failure to bleed properley is causing ABS issues and in turn non operation of TC but i have no ABS light on at present after start up

Thanks for reading this far, OC link here

http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/s ... e+bleeding

You've really been through the mill with this Rob

I am wondering whether T/C isn't playing because you've effectively changed the T/C ECU (Engine Control Unit) when you changed the ABS assembly. Might be worth asking David or Duncan. Maybe needs to be re-enabled?

Just a thought

Yes Paul i feel another T4 session coming on !

I'm not sure, but the codes would be right in everything else, and the ABS unit should already be coded for TC as it came off a TC car.

This may be daft, but are you sure the unit is for a diesel with traction, not a V6?

EDIT: sorry didn't spot it was a brand new one, so it might well need coding on the T4.

A massive thanks to David who came over today to try and sort out the TC for me. After Paul D was told by Lucas technical yesterday that the pump i had was for a 1.8 I feared the worst but the Lucas number on the new pump is exactly the same as the previous used one I fitted which had come from a diesel with traction and was working fine in the donor car

Anyway t4 eventually recognised the pump and said this vehicle is fitted with ABS Diesel TC and brought up no fault codes, ABS working fine but TC not activated as the icon is still on the dash all the time

Brakes bled via T4 , first each wheel for the new pump then primary bleed then secondary bleed, got no fluid from rear drivers right for first bleeds but after switching engine on the fluid came out and pedal is now firm so at least i can use the car

So what is still wrong, well not sure tbh, pump type must be ok as recognised as correct one by T4 but one thing i never did was check wiring continuity from dash to pump, and have read a post on the OC from Big Russ that having wiring at the dash does not automatically mean all wiring is in place so guess next job is to check continuity in case some wiring is missing. I also have fuse 47 unpopulated and no pins in the fuse board yet according to the car manual it should be a 30amp for Traction Control ( although i have fuse 37 also unpopulated which the manual says is for FBH (Fuel burning heater.) but FBH works fine )

Any ideas on a postcard please

Rob,

according to RAVE wiring diagram for MY2004, supply seems to come from F19 only. Have you fitted a known serviceable fuse? Might be worth a look before we demolish your car and get to work tracing wires

Why not give Russ a ring and have a ride up??? He doesn't bite and his rates are reasonable

Thanks Guys, i checked fuse 19 Paul and it seemed ok but i changed it anyway, its an easy check to do again just in case though before as you say further investigation

Fuse 47 is for the TC ECU, which you don't have. TC ECU is only for the v6.

Fuse 37 is for FBH park heating, so the FBH itself will work OK without it. I's only needed if you have the OEM setup for the FBH remote or timer.

What was the fault code that was still present after David had been?

There were no fault codes in the end Duncan, once T4 had communicated to the ETC modulator ok , but TC will not activate as the icon is on the dash permanently, no ABS issues either, thanks for the info re the fuses

What's the part number of the modulator you have, Rob?

Duncan

The Bosch number is 265 900 004 and the pump housing is stamped MN

See this from Paul D

"Spent a lot of time on this today & info is as follows for the Diesel WITH Traction control

OE part no SRB101311 which is stamped MN

Bosch part no is 0265 224 010 superseeded by 0265 224 039

No longer made by Bosch

Parts at Rimmers have 0265 224 039 on them & having spoken to Bosch Technical Nothing Else will do the job. ABS & Traction"

So it could still be the wrong unit maybe but the T4 shows no faults and even says this vehicle is fitted with Diesel Traction Control, plus part number ending 004 is the same as the first used one i bought which came off a diesel with TC which the seller said was working as it came off his own car which he was braking, but of course i got exacty the same symptoms as with the one i have fitted now ie 004

On start up the words " Traction Control " apear on the IPK but quickly followed by the TC icon to signify TC is off and the dash switch makes no difference, today wires checked for continuity and all good, and another dash switch tried too but still the same

Hi. There are two part numbers. On for the valve block, one for the ECU. I reckon you have looked at the valve block number on yours, stamped into the aluminium. The ECU is on a label on the black plastic part.

Duncan,

The valve block is where MN is stamped, the black plastic part is where the 004 number comes from and the full details on that bit are:

BOSCH -( 2 visible bar code blocks with numbers underneath) 964135 0 265 900 004

There is also 085 and 20131 in the top right corner and PBT GF 30 elsewhere on the black plastic

Those are taken off the used unit which is in the garage, i cant get the numbers from the fitted pump as its on the car and they are on the underneath and not visible but i do know that the number 964135 0 265 900 004 is exactly the same

Paul D also bought a unit the same as the one I have on the car and he has given me the numbers as follows:

582145 0 265 900 004

085 21211

PBT GF 30

Paul is phoning Bosch again tomorrow and will report back

Sorry, brain fade. The 0 265 224 xxx is the one on the valve block. The 0 265 900 xxx is on the plastic part.

I've found a picture on the internet, supposedly of the same unit. It has 0 265 224 009 on the metal, 0 265 900 004 like on yours. It's stamped MN, too.

I've just been reading some data again.

It seems that on vehicles with traction control, the ABS is on CAN (Bus Controller Area Network). But on ordinary ones, it isn't. I had always believed that the roadspeed was sent by CAN, but it's possible it isn't.

So, it looks like you might have a fault in the CAN wiring to the modulator, or it might be missing altogether. It's hard to be sure because different bits of the manual seem to contradict each other.

Could be worth checking for fault codes in the IPK, as if it's expecting CAN messages from the ABS/TCU and not seeing them I'd expect a fault code. Mind you, I'd probably expect one in the ABS/TCU as well.

That's interesting Duncan.

I thought CANBUS was responsible for roadspeed data as well.

Bearing in mind that on my car, it was a plug and play swap to T/C, is it likely that the wiring isn't there on Rob's car? Or maybe they did away with what might have been redundant wiring for the Mk II.

Is there any difficulty in installing CANBUS wiring if it becomes clear that such is required? I've never dealt with CANBUS before. Is it simply multiplexed down standard wires?

All going over my head now but very interesting none the less !

Just spoken to Paul D and he will phone Bosch tomorrow.

Re TC on a 1.8, Bosch were adamant that there is one and said the casing is also stamped MN as on the diesel but Paul will confirm tomorrow.

There is no mention of TC on a 1.8 on RAVE, I originally thought there was at 70-6 but those appear to be the ABS modulators for KV6, M47R and 1.8 versions.

TC is at section 70-8 and only mentions KV6 and M47R, so maybe 1.8 is for export models is a possibility and if i have one of those will it work if i take my car out of the UK !

I wonder if there's a version for 1.8s in Freelander?

Adding CAN wiring wouldn't be that hard. It's a pair of wires twisted together that make the bus.

Would T/C of this type be required in a Freelander Duncan?