Engine Failure! by eigenmode



eigenmode
Evening All,

Just got towed home by the RAC after my engine decided to give up and die. I was on a 60 mile round trip and was just starting the homeward leg. Noticed that fuel was just below 1/4 tank so put £20 in. Engine was working perfectly before re-fueling, and for a few miles after that. Then a lack of power which sorted itself after a couple of miles then the engine lost all power under about 2000 revs then died and refused to restart.

The RAC took a while to srrive and in the meantime the car restarted but refused to rev over 2000 after a couple of seconds. This was accompanied by blue smoke.

Having read various threads on the other Forum I was wondering whether this might have something to do with either the EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation Valve) or MAF (Mass Air Flow Sensor), or could it be something as simple as manky fuel? The RAC guy checked the EGR and said that it appeared to be closed, and couldn't detect a vacuum at the end of the pipe. The interior of the EGR body was in a mess, so that will need changing anyway. Disconnecting the MAF did nothing, so I am at a loss as to where to go next. The one thing I did notice was that the temp gauge seemed to be stuck in the middle 9-O'clock position when the engine did start, and I know that it normally runs slightly cool as I need to get Jules to fit a new stat.

Anyone have any ideas? I am based in Liverpool and would prefer not to have to use Xpart to sort it it out.

Car is a 2002 '52 CDT Tourer, 180,000 miles.

Cheers for now and thanks for any input on this one.

Mike

Posted 31 Oct 2010, 21:05 #1 

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James.uk
Well a mucky EGR wont prevent the car from starting, and on it's own, neither will an iffy MAf..

Sounds like a fueling problem to me, Will it start with "easystart" ?? try spraying some in while someone turns the key, if the engine runs with that, then you have a fuel problem, probably one or both of the pumps are goosed.. :roll: .. If not then plzz get back to us.. :)
...

Posted 31 Oct 2010, 22:32 #2 


eigenmode
Thanks for that James,

What I just found on popping outside is that the car started normally, and I could hear the fuel pump noise from the passenger footwell. Te hour being late I did not try and rev it up, but I blipped the throttle and it seemed responsive. I will do a more in depth investigation tomorrow morning.

Mike

Posted 31 Oct 2010, 23:34 #3 


eigenmode
An update...

I went out and started the car first thing this morning. I can hear the underbonnet fuel pump, but not the in tank one. I presume that it would be quite audible, even with the plush leather, extremely comfortable rear seats of the '75? :) The car started normally and I drove down to the local shops and back without a problem; car was responsive but I didn't go above 30 anyway.

The RAC man had left off the engine cover as I told him I would be investigating further before calling in the mechanics. He had disconnected the EGR pipe, and had left it unplugged. I put it back on and the car ran worse; removing it and it improved. There was a very noticeably different sound with it plugged and unplugged. However, on revving up the car to 2500 RPM I got quite a lot of smoke out of the exhaust and the typical burning diesel aroma. I have plugged the end of the braided hose with a screw.

I have checked the 3 pin sensor plug at the end of the fuel rail and that is secure. The MAF is plugged in securely.

So my questions are: would a failed in tank fuel pump manifest itself with these symptoms? There is over 1/3 of a tank of fuel in the car and oil and water are fine. And is there anything else I should be checking? Would a blocked EGR cause or contribute to these symptoms?

Your help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Mike

Posted 01 Nov 2010, 09:34 #4 

User avatar
MrB
Just wondered if you have had a look at the PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation Valve) too?? This can cause rough running and other problems.

If the Under Bonnet Pump is working on its own, and is not in the fullest of health itself, then this might also be the cause. You can hear the in tank pump as soon as you open my car, starts whirring away immediately to prime the engine.

The mkone(??) site sells the pair for a good price IIRC.

T4 (Testbook version 4.Computer Diagnostic System) session, once you can trust it to get you to one, would be the best bet.
Chris
Member No. 143
Mods so far: LED sidelights, interior lights and number plate lamps, Rover Xenon Headlights, Kenlowe Fan, Synergy 2 and EGR Bypass

Posted 01 Nov 2010, 15:17 #5 

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James.uk
Hmmm.. OK.. So unblock the braided pipe and put it back on. Then pull the lil vacuum pipe off it's spigot, squash the spigot closed with pliers and pop the lil pipe back on.. That's the EGR sorted (disconnected) but give it a good clean out asap.. :)

I don't think the EGR has anything to do with the problem though.. :confused:

I think the problem lies with your intank fuel pump, but -- as you are in Liverpool, my advice to you is .. stop faffin about and get yer backside over to Colwyn Bay and get Jules to fix the car for you once and for all... :D :thumbsup:
...

Posted 01 Nov 2010, 17:54 #6 

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JohnDotCom
A common fault for failing/failed in tank pump if fuel goes below a quarter full.
T4 test to see what's logged, clean all the crap out of egr and preferably bypass.
Don't forget fuel filter if not changed, but pump would be my diagnosis without seeing/hearing car.
John

"My lovely car now sold onto a very happy new owner.
I still love this marque and I will still be around, preferred selling to breaking, as a great runner and performer"

Posted 01 Nov 2010, 19:09 #7 


eigenmode
Thanks for your continued input on this one chaps! :thumbsup:

Cleaning out the EGR will have to be done as James says. JDC - I have been in contact with Jules and he has some in tank pumps in stock so I think I'll get one from him and fit it myself. He says it is tricky but I have to work slowly these days and I can take care. He also advised me to check the fuel filter, but as it has been pouring down here I have had to leave that until drier weather.

I went for another run down the road, but the car disappeared in a cloud of white smoke when I put my foot down. :? At rest this happens when the revs go over 2000, and the more you rev, the more smoke there is. Is this pointing in the direction of the injectors do you think? It does seem curious that this chain of events only happened when I went and put fuel in at this grotty little garage in Leigh. Expensive fuel as well, compared to the supermarket which I passed five minutes later. I wonder also whether the fuel was contaminated, as there is definitely an aroma of a chip pan fire.

However, on the plus side the car is starting normally now, which it wasn't doing yesterday evening. I need a new stat anyway, so a trip to Jules is on the cards when I can get the beast sorted enough to make it up the A55. Looks like my weekend schedule is sorted then.

Cheers,

Mike

Posted 01 Nov 2010, 21:49 #8 

User avatar
James.uk
White smoke is normally unburnt fuel.. But it could be steam? Unlikely though..

I would have thought that an injector playing up would result in lumpy uneven running... :confused:

A chippie smell is what you get when you are using cooking oil in the engine.. ... Hmmm... Not filled up with bio by mistake have you??
....

Posted 02 Nov 2010, 01:19 #9 

User avatar
Duncan
I'd agree, normally leaking injectors, that is too much fuel, is black smoke not white.

That and the odd smell suggest dodgy fuel in my opinion. It's becoming more common. If it was a bit of water, it would normally collect in the fuel filter (Big silver one underbonnet) but a lot would overwhelm it. Might be worth changing that and examining the contents, too.
Image

Posted 02 Nov 2010, 21:13 #10 


eigenmode
The end of the story...

The 75 has been sitting idle all through the winter, as I don't work in the cold. When I called in at our local garage in a Merc they wanted to know where the 75 was. I explained the problem and the first thing the mechanic asked was whether I had put petrol in by mistake. I said no; he said check: a quick sniff of the tank and sure enough it was petrol.
Drained the tank, replaced the fuel filter, brimmed it with (the right) fuel and some Miller's. Result: one happy driver once again. It ran unsteadily for about 3 miles - possibly due to battery reset - but then settled down to its' normal quiet self. These engines really are bomb-proof.
I went back to the garage where I had misfueled and in the daylight I could see that the fuel line was a dark green not black; I did fill up at night.
Anyway, thanks for all the suggestions; I got around to doing all the little jobs that have been mentioned.

Cheers,

Mike

Posted 02 Jun 2011, 16:38 #11 

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Bernard
Online
The RAC should have spotted that, such a common problem.
I don't like signatures, they take up too much screen space.

Posted 02 Jun 2011, 17:23 #12 

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MrB
Been there and done that, with my 1st 75.

Luckily I realised whilst at the service station and got the AA to take me to a local garage to have the tank drained etc. Like yours it never missed a beat.

Am very careful now at the pumps.
Chris
Member No. 143
Mods so far: LED sidelights, interior lights and number plate lamps, Rover Xenon Headlights, Kenlowe Fan, Synergy 2 and EGR Bypass

Posted 03 Jun 2011, 14:22 #13 


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