Diesel 131 CDTi cold start issue. by Mick (Page 1 of 2)


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Mick
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Diesel 131 CDTi Tourer 54 plate facelift in Copperleaf Red
Friend has bought this car, had it delivered yesterday. failed to start from cold this morning. AA man says glow plugs not working started it with spray into air intake. It did start instantly :confused:
Starts instantly and sounds / runs as expected once warmed.
We'll have proper look at it tomorrow, fuel is low at the moment which may be the issue?

Any thoughts on the matter will be appreciated.

Ta

Posted 20 Sep 2010, 21:00 #1 

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MrB
Glow plug relay may have got wet and failed??

However, when mine went on my last 75, I removed the fuse to stop it killing my battery, it would still start and it was the depths of winter.

Rover rons site would be my first port of call - am sure is one of the sensors when needs easy start to get it going??
Chris
Member No. 143
Mods so far: LED sidelights, interior lights and number plate lamps, Rover Xenon Headlights, Kenlowe Fan, Synergy 2 and EGR Bypass

Posted 20 Sep 2010, 21:03 #2 

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Mick
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That took all of three minutes to get a first reply. :) :) :)

Thank you

Posted 20 Sep 2010, 21:09 #3 

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MrB
It's all in the timing.

Just got on and this was top of the new posts list.

Here's a link to rover rons site http://tuning-diesels.com/75Zt/R75serv.htm#a

Glow plug relays appear to be like Rockin Horse Poop to get hold of - am on the lookout myself. Russ' T4 (Testbook version 4.Computer Diagnostic System) having thrown up an error with mine.

There is a seller with them for £50 on eBay
View eBay item 200349376393
which has the original part number - but am sure these were superceeded quite some time ago

Then there are these at £61.99 plus del
View eBay item 270520947507
Rimmers don't appear to have any in stock, not sure about Xpart

Hope that helps :gmc:
Chris
Member No. 143
Mods so far: LED sidelights, interior lights and number plate lamps, Rover Xenon Headlights, Kenlowe Fan, Synergy 2 and EGR Bypass

Posted 20 Sep 2010, 21:17 #4 

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Russ
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The M47 doesn't need glow plugs even when it's below zero. ;)

The glow plug relay is a real PITA, totally unsealed and the first thing to get flooded if the plenum gets blocked.

With the cold start problem a good place to start is the cam sensor. It's only used in starting the engine once running it's not used.

Check the connector to it for security or damage, try putting the sensor in the freezer for a few hours if it then starts the car (cold engine) when refitted that's the culprit.



Russ

EDIT meant cam sensor not crank been along day.
Full T4 diagnostics, options enabled and disabled p.m for details

Posted 20 Sep 2010, 21:36 #5 

Last edited by Russ on 20 Sep 2010, 21:58, edited 1 time in total.

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JohnDotCom
There is the Cam Sensor which can play up to............
John

"My lovely car now sold onto a very happy new owner.
I still love this marque and I will still be around, preferred selling to breaking, as a great runner and performer"

Posted 20 Sep 2010, 21:39 #6 

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Russ
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MrB wrote:
Glow plug relays appear to be like Rockin Horse Poop to get hold of - am on the lookout myself.
Rimmers don't appear to have any in stock, not sure about Xpart

Hope that helps :gmc:


Not difficult at all, ;) BMW part number 12212246919. The BMW part has got some extra terminals on it but it does fit and resolves the issue of not being able to source the MG Rover part.

Alternatively try a TD4 Freelander one.

Russ
Full T4 diagnostics, options enabled and disabled p.m for details

Posted 20 Sep 2010, 21:57 #7 

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MrB
Thanks Russ

Been trying to find a BMW or LR Part No for it.
Chris
Member No. 143
Mods so far: LED sidelights, interior lights and number plate lamps, Rover Xenon Headlights, Kenlowe Fan, Synergy 2 and EGR Bypass

Posted 20 Sep 2010, 22:38 #8 

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Mick
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So far so good, it looks like low fuel issue. We'll know for certain tomorrow morning with a proper stone cold start. Thanks everybody for your input.

Posted 21 Sep 2010, 17:28 #9 

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starbug2
mine starts well , don't wait for the glow plugs unless cold so may not be them

Posted 21 Sep 2010, 18:04 #10 

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raistlin
Russ wrote:The glow plug relay is a real PITA, totally unsealed and the first thing to get flooded if the plenum gets blocked.


Isn't there a cheaper alternative that could be fitted Russ? Is it just a relay?
Paul

Cogito ergo sum... maybe?

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Image

Posted 21 Sep 2010, 18:12 #11 

Last edited by raistlin on 21 Sep 2010, 18:31, edited 1 time in total.

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JohnDotCom
If its the older MK1 Diesel, more often than not more so if below a quarter of a tank of fuel one of the Fuel Pumps or both have failed.
John

"My lovely car now sold onto a very happy new owner.
I still love this marque and I will still be around, preferred selling to breaking, as a great runner and performer"

Posted 21 Sep 2010, 18:20 #12 

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Mick
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JohnDotCom wrote:If its the older MK1 Diesel, more often than not more so if below a quarter of a tank of fuel one of the Fuel Pumps or both have failed.

Mk 2, only the in tank pump on this one and it's fully functional. There was very little fuel n the tank. Ww put for gallons in and then when ignition switched on there was a fair amount of gurgling as the system was primed. Started immediately, whereas before the fuel top up it would not start. Just be doing a double check tomorrow.

Posted 21 Sep 2010, 18:57 #13 

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Zeb
Did the fuel gauge not read empty?

Posted 22 Sep 2010, 08:19 #14 

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Mick
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Zeb wrote:Did the fuel gauge not read empty?



Not quite, the warning light had just come on. Lack of accuracy was the culprit there. However, morning cold start and the same issue occurred. The in tank pump has been messed about with by previous owner or garage, the scruffy wiring made that obvious. It will be a few days before further investigation. We are of the opinion this is not a new problem but one which has been ongoing and not been resolved before sale.
I'll report back after the said further investigations. Other than the cold start issue engine runs and starts as expected.

Posted 23 Sep 2010, 11:40 #15 

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Duncan
Could be an issue with the transfer systeminside the tank. In theory you could end up with a fair bit of fuel in the 'wrong' side of the tank and it not get transferred. Fuel guage would say it was there (because it is) but pump would not be able to use it.

Have a look on the instrument pack diagnostics to see how much fuel is registered on each sender. (Is that function in there, I get confused) Or maybe a T4 would tell you?

Alternatively, measure the resistance of each of the senders. Is it similar?
Image

Posted 23 Sep 2010, 12:20 #16 

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MrB
Duncan wrote:Have a look on the instrument pack diagnostics to see how much fuel is registered on each sender. (Is that function in there, I get confused)

I don't think you can check them individually, unfortunately.

But the dash diagnostics can tell you if one or both senders are working IIRC, when you go to the check that shows the level in the tank - if the reading starts with a 1 both are OK and with a 2, one is not working.

I have problem where mine drops to close to empty, if I am at a standstill and the gauge is into the bottom quarter, and it will then be very inaccurate for the whole time it is in that quarter. Have been advised probably one of my senders is not functioning. I need to do this check myself to see.

When replacing the motor in the in tank pump you do have disconnect the link pipe to the other side, I wonder if it isn't sealing properly, isn't connected or is holed?

If is fine once started don't think the pump could be at fault though, but if it isn't getting the fuel across from the passenger side of the tank that might be causing a problem.
Chris
Member No. 143
Mods so far: LED sidelights, interior lights and number plate lamps, Rover Xenon Headlights, Kenlowe Fan, Synergy 2 and EGR Bypass

Posted 23 Sep 2010, 14:35 #17 

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Duncan
MrB wrote:I don't think you can check them individually, unfortunately.

Yes, I've looked at the circuit diagram now I'm home, and they are in series. You would have to check them down at the tank, with the plugs off.Between pins 1 and 4 for RH sensor, 3 and 6 for the left. Connector appears to be on the RH module.

I was thinking of another car, where all four senders are read separately by the instrument pack, and you can read the resistance and the equivalent fuel value for all four.
Image

Posted 23 Sep 2010, 18:17 #18 

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Mick
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Thanks to Duncans efforts with T4 last Sunday, the consensus is that one or more of the injectors are faulty.
Next step leak back test. Oh what fun we have. :)

Posted 04 Oct 2010, 21:16 #19 

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Zeb
Maybe this company would come in handy...

http://www.lynxdiesels.com/

Posted 05 Oct 2010, 08:55 #20 


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